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 PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT

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Bazza
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Calimori
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PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Empty
PostSubject: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 07:16

Positive Crank Ventilation (PCV) is important to the engine to ensure that any pressure that is built up in the crankcase during combustion is released, this use to vent to atmosphere and thus cause additional smog problems associated with car use. Modern cars deal with the problem of venting to the atmosphere by passing the gas back into the air intake, this allows the un-burnt hydrocarbons to have another go at being combusted and are now set up to actually vent the system by use of a vacuum.
The PCV Valve works to use inlet manifold vacuum to regulate the flow as is needed.
Definition of a PCV and the valve and a bit more info.

On the 20vT engine ventilation is done via an exit on the top of the engine right side and undernearth the inlet manifold in the front center for the engine. The vacuum source comes from the middle of the inlet manifold. the pipes are a combination of formed plastics and rubbers or in some cases metal pipes. The valve changes the flow of gases depending on the action of the inlet manifold.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Pcvvacuum

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Pcvboost


The problem with the system is that over time the oil that is in the gases starts to corrode the pipes and thus causes leaks, in the case of a lot of MK IV this is usually visible by the top pipes becoming torn and releasing gases that can be smelt in the car.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Broken-pipe

On this set up, the pipe highlighted is a single one off piece that can be re-fabricated without buying the OEM part but it is harder to make due to the angle, buying the original will just cause the same problem again in a few years. A lot of people therefore seek to make their own alternatives which was what I wanted to do, so I bought a T-Pieces and made my own set up however I quickly realised that the pipe going down to the lower crankcase was made of plastic and this breaks, in loads of places.
So I found a metal alternative off of another VAG system, this allows two separate tubes to the top crankcase breather and the other back into the intake.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Breather_Pipe_Boost_Leak02_640x480

As the picture above shows the metal pipe in the center of the picture connects to a three way rubber T-piece, to the top goes a thin tube to the inlet manifold for the vacuum, to the right goes a thick tube to the lower crankcase. The three way T-pieces holds the magic PCV Valve, it is a separate part that is housed in thick part of the tube and in this picture held with a jubilee clip.
The valve can get bunged up and all the other parts can split or get damaged so for the sake of this document lets assume that in one day I decided to replace and modify all of the parts discussed rather than chase this damn problem for over 9 months before properly fixing it.

I ordered:
The lower crankcase pipe,
The o-ring that goes with it
The rubber t-piece,
The PCV Valve,
The hose that goes to the manifold,
The metal pipe that goes up to the top
A lot of silicon pipes
New dipstick tube incase you break the old one, if it is old you will break it if you don't have a spare.

The work:

Undo the plate infront of the inlet manifold, this require the two nuts that hold the return pipe for the secondary air system to be undone and two allen bolts that hold the plate to the manifold. I will post more information about the removal of this plate here

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT DSCN0908

In the above picture the plate is lose and ready to be removed.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT DSCN0909

In the above picture, the plate has been moved and you can see the pipe going from the inlet manifold to the rubber t-piece that holds the PCV valve.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT DSCN0915

Another view that shows the larger pipe for the bottom crankcase breather.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT DSCN0917

With the manifold vacuum tube removed you can see the PCV Valve, it is the white part in the t-piece. This also gives you a better view of how to remove the lower crankcase breather, there is a retaining clip that needs to be pulled out, the whole pipe actually seats on an o-ring that should be replaced as well.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT DSCN0918

Here is a picture of the new vacuum that connects to the PCV valve.

This can all be made up out of the car before you put it in and it really does make it easier.

The metal tube however is hard to alinge so I put that in and up to the top crankcase hole, then fitted it up to the other pipes under the manifold. Here is a little video to show how it was put together:
PCV pipes Video

After a little jiggerling I was able to seat the metal pipe close to the engine and therefore make a clean set up. I need a 90 degree elbow silicon pipe for the top engine breather but other than that it all went back together and now looks like this.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT DSCN0932

After the first trial set up, my engine light went out on it's own and now I have no boost leak issues and it runs much better. I will add that I am replacing all vacuum pipes with silicon as I go so there might be other factors.

Part numbers:

The lower crankcase pipe - 06A-103-213-F
Clip for lower crankcase pipe - 037-121-142-A
The o-ring that goes with it - N-904-673-01
The rubber t-piece - 06A-103-247
The PCV Valve - 035-103-245-A
The hose that goes to the manifold - 06A-103-221-AF
The metal pipe that goes up to the top 06A-103-213-S (From older 1.8T AWR etc).
A lot of silicon pipes
New dipstick tube incase you break the old one, if it is old you will break it if you don't have a spare 06A-103-663B-SJ.


References or sites to read more:

A part source but also a catch can idea
Audi source where I found some part numbers
Loads of information


Last edited by Calimori on Fri Apr 03 2009, 00:18; edited 6 times in total
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Calimori
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PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Empty
PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 07:31

Other ideas, don't use a metal pipe but run silicon from the rubber t-piece. This should work fine and silicon will handle the pressures, it also gives you more options about the routing but might not look as professional.

Fit the catch can to collect the oil in the gases and therefore keep the MAF clean.

Find the 90 degree elbow required to finish off the engine bay.

Consider the re-routing shown in this diagram.

PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT Vacuum
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sparkie1984
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 10:48

thanks cali, ive got a catch can fitted to mine but i needed to remove the pcv valve for it to catch properly!

answered my question Smile
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 10:58

From all I have read, you really do want a PCV valve as it actually helps the flow.
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sparkie1984
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 11:00

oh right, will have to have a look into that then! maybe mine just doesnt have loads of crap!
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 11:49

Cali is a Legend to the game
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sparkie1984
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 25 2009, 11:51

hes taught me more about these engines than 6 months on seatcupra.net lol!
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 26 2009, 00:17

Thank Dusby, I am just doing what I do but it is nice to know others appreciate it. Very Happy
I have had to learn about things because of the problem my car had, if I can pass that on then it was not a wasted experience.

Sparkie, show me some pictures of your bypass and we can see if you actually need to revise it or if it is actually a good idea. It would also be good to see how SEAT did it.
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 26 2009, 11:15

i may need to get these bits and have a look at this as my breathers are split :d
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sparkie1984
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 26 2009, 11:20

gricey what do you do to those pipes lol!

oh and i think you should join the team Smile
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 26 2009, 13:33

Get the bits and I will happily do the job with you, for quickness, don't buy the metal pipe, run a silicon hose all the way down and buy a t-piece from Halfords. However, I like to keep a little OEM. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 26 2009, 16:26

You are a fountain of pure knowledge dude, we are VERY lucky to have you on board, as Nomads we bow in reverence. Keep up the good work.
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 27 2009, 00:09

good work G-man!!

that other part will be in 2day for you (27/0109)

so let me kno when u want it
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 27 2009, 00:17

As I was trying to find out about the problem I realised that few sites had enough information, when I did find it I started to then be able to understand the set up. This page is just me pulling it all together.
I think the video makes it quite clear as to where the pipes are and how they thread through but if anyone has a question, ask away as that will help to make the page more comprehensive.

Glad that pipe is in as my bodged pipe can't handle the correct route and the car can sound a little like a tractor.
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 27 2009, 04:54

nice one g
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 02 2009, 11:55

cali what was the cost of this mate and did it reduce a little oil consumption ?
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 03 2009, 00:26

The bits add up, I will look for reciepts but I don't think we are talking about more than £70 to do the lot. I finished mine off with a silicon elbow on the top crankcase which was more than required.

I don't have a catch can fitted, I would leave the system as it was and put one by the top TIP pipe. That is another cost.

AMD do a replacement for 06A-103-221-AF, other fabricate it and use a one way valve to ensure boost is not lost.
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2011, 14:54

Nice write up, guess I be checking my boost pipes(code17705,17535
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2011, 16:15

i got 17705 too. are you mapped.? its doing my head in as i keep getting GIMP mode. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18 2011, 07:11

Yep. In the next Week I am going to rip off all the pipes and start again, also I might remove the Sai pump , and bridge it out with resistors and blank it off, m
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18 2011, 13:16

well let me know if you get rid of the 17705 coz its peeing me off..!!!
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 21 2011, 09:02

There other place to look is the hot side turbo pipe to the intercooler but unless this area has been looked at in the last five years I would check this area.

I wish I had fitted a vacuum/boost gauge at the beginning of the process. The vacuum gauge lets me know if there is a problem with that side. I get about 22 at idle so know I don't have a vacuum leak from the PCV.
Note: VAGCom can't get the data off quick enough from the older HEX ODB2 ports so I don't think you can use these diag programs to get a proper boost and vacuum map. The newer CAN bus ones can give the readings in real time. So a boost/vacuum gauge and a trusty co-pilot is what you need.
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 21 2011, 11:12

Cali any chance you fancy having a look at mine at some point it's doing my head in and my boost is all over the place.! Would like to get it sorted before I go on my RR day in October.!
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 23 2011, 09:49

I ve blank off the Sai and the n249/ and the other one , had it running and it came up with lots of others, 17525, 17833, 17829,1784, and a couple more, so stuck it all back on, still all the new faults stayed on, then after hours of checking , found a fuse had blown , due to me touching a resistor on the chassis, short circuiting it. Replaced blown fuse , ripped it all off again. Ran it but still 17705.(but feels a lot better) My next try is as above , I ve heard that an agu charge pipe might be best for this .
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PostSubject: Re: PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT   PCV (Positive Crank Ventilation) 20vT I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 28 2011, 04:25

Guys, start by getting me back an idle vacuum reading to check if it is the PCV tubes leaking vacuum.
I am setting up my own IT consultancy company so am very busy.

I have a spare set of AUM converted pipes which are cut down and using some connections I made up to avoid the baronet ones that leak. I ran this set up for 6 months before finding some AGU ones for a good price. They have no leaks but off the top of my head I don't know what they are worth to me. No 17705 with these on if that is the cause of your problem.

If you don't have a boost/vacuum gauge then go buy one for £30 from halfords. It is the cheapest way to know what the hell is going on.

N249 needs to be left plugged in but bypassed, that will throw and error if disconnected.
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